The Interceptor Today --page 8

The reasons why I no longer post information
onto the madmaxmovies.com message board.

Plus below this ugly politics I have added a few other things that I have written to magazines (I like really the "Son's of Mad Max" one).

Also I have included at the end the "Pursuit special" fictional stuff I wrote a quite few years ago for another fan website.

Did I ever consider that back in the 1980's or 1990's someone like Murray Smith would want to spend hours on end talking on a telephone to someone with a way out idea like building a replica .. Someone like me?

Yea I thought of it. but then I thought why the hell would he want to do that? It was 1982 EVERYONE that I spoke too about building a replica thought I was crazy, so did I want to appear crazy to some one so close to the real thing. Of course not. so I worked around it.

It is also weird when you get a comment like this one below retrieved from the MAD MAX message boards some days after I left it.

" in the end he(Gordon) builds replicas from watching DVDs. There are builders out there who build them from pics and after spending countless hours talking with the original owner and creator of the car".

I draw attention to that line. (well yea.. actually I build replicas using every bit of information that I can find from any place that I can find). But none the less this indicates just how soon your history can be over looked and lost. This guy obviously never knew that Grant and myself spent countless hours measuring and meticulously inspecting what few pictures we had. This was in the days years before DVD's when we would have sometimes 10 goes at getting the video to freeze in just the right position and then we would measure up the TV screen to get perspective, sticking masking tape across the screen so we could mark it to gather distance information.

When I started chasing information 1982 I had to ring Purvis fibreglass every week for ages till I found someone willing to talk to me, it was 1982 there was no nostalgia, no public interest, everyone thought me stupid for even having the interest, for 13 years there were no mates to support the project, no applause for what was happening to my long suffering Falcon XB coupe, just looks of disgust. I my opinion you survive that with your passion intact then you are indeeda fan. Finally I met with the late Errol Platt and I spent that long afternoon with him as Errol explained his many photos and pictures to me. he told me that they were all obtained when working on the original Mad Max cars. Now weather or not Errol even worked on the cars is under dispute.well he certainly had the roof spoiler mould, and a heap of pictures, so with Errol long passed I can only take him on his word.

It is a natural progress that if the pursuit of information in ongoing things that were not known 10 years ago will become known today, and things not known today will become known in another 10 years.

When I moved to Perth in January 1993 I do not remember the internet existing at all.

In 1993 nobody it seemed knew anything at all about Mad Max it was a world so different from the one we have today, today international internet contact is common place and by historical standards' it is now all so easy. Now even some members of the Mad Max cast and crew are available to the fans and so much information is shared.

But still even in 2007 because I live in Perth I am still isolated from this new interest of the Y2K plus era, yet the interest of this newer generation has perhaps sprung from the ground work a few fans did so long ago.

Over here I am so far way that in many ways aspects of that original pre-internet isolation still remains.

I suppose that in 2007 it is human nature to have the new generation consider themselves more passionate, more deserving, better equipped, and therefore much more worthy to carry the torch than the old guard, and that is what I saw being demonstrated on the message board. This "NEW" generation actually turned up as a direct result of the Easternats held at Sandown motor raceway in 2007, it seems a bunch of guys sat about talking to some original production team members and from that moment on the "new generation" proclaimed themselves the holders of wisdom and as such they were the chosen ones, yes the mighty hand of vengeance and some how I got into there gun sites!"

The moment I saw it I realised that I was no longer welcome on the message board and in that instant I understood that I had no further business at all on the message board.

Because arguing and debating in situations when opinions are already decided is not part of anything I enjoy, so I just had to move past it.

So with my grass roots history over looked if I post on the message board today I am seen as a seller drumming up business.

If I do not post I am likely to be labelled as either rude, or distant, cowardly, gutless, or perhaps at the other extreme I might even be viewed as humble, all depending on the interpretation of the reader. In other words nothing I say will be right if it is all pre-judged as false just because I happen to say it.

So with this new generation arriving behind me my original motivation for posting on the message board. that motivation being to share the enthusiasm and the passion transcended from welcome information being shared to what has now been interpreted as simple incendiary dialogue.

But putting all that aside the number one primary reason for my departure from the board was the random, bias and personally judgemental application of the Censorship ruling as applied by a hidden identity. and to quote myself . "It was actually the censorship that pushed my decision to now spend my time away from this message board".

I am not actually sure how you can have censorship in the hands of an individual who will post personal political views but there you go. it happened.

But beyond that I just did not get the whole censor thing, the forum is after all a forum and the views expressed are only and can only ever be those of the posting contributors and can never reflect the opinions of the host website. Forums are free speech".

This might sound a bit harsh, but from where I sit today I see the new self appointed caretakers of truth in position, and once that happened the message board then became in serious danger of being regulated, monitored and censored by a very small group of individuals. And if this did happen the communication lines could rapidly contract into a very small group who were in essence using the public forum to communicate between there own small group and restrict/delete any post's judged to be negative or unwanted . And broadly speaking this is in fact what happened.

The group formed a mouthpiece under a hidden identity and the mouth piece then attacked our replicas applying the judgement that because we now know so much that we can publicly say that we are so very, very right and you are so very, very wrong. In my opinion the madmaxmovies.com message board is for now in the hands of a small new group capable only of self praise and interested only in those they still need.

It's "Barter town" now and if you are judged with nothing to offer you have no business there.

Below it is the story that I wanted to post along with it, because it says so much about where I came from, but I figured no-body would read that far, the story Pilgrimage is available on this website linked via the Chronology section.

Message by Gordon Hayes on 26 April 2007 at 8:56 pm
Location: Australia Joined: 30 April 2003 Posts: 493 Profile Search www Quote Edit Delete

WOW so here I am ... finally making my last madmaxmovies.com post after over 10 years. I bet I spell something wrong, or miss something..

Anyhow yea we all grow old and move on, even on this board the participants have changed a lot over the last 10 or more years.

Right now of course I am under siege from criticism, various innuendos, censorship and so on, so this is a time for some careful word choices.

It was actually the censorship that pushed my decision to now spend my time away from this message board.

I just did not get the whole censor thing, the forum is after all a forum and the views expressed are only and can only ever be those of the posting contributors and can never reflect the opinions of the host website. Forums are free speech.

Actually the more colourful "puppet" never really bothered me, The "puppet" could in fact just be some clown deciding to disrupt the board, and might have actually picked me at random.

The fact that he lists a posting from Australia means that unless he is in Perth or quite widely travelled he will most likely have never even seen one of our replica's.

But the "Puppet" did bring to light the simple fact that once you build and sell a replica you are no longer viewed as just another Mad Max fan, you become a supplier, and as such on a forum you are subject to analysis be if fair or fowl by anyone at any level with any background and with any prejudices.

So build a replica and sell it and you are viewed as profiteer and no longer as a grass roots MAD MAX fan, particularly by a new generation who have no idea of your past.

But as this is last entry I will point out a few facts on replica building.

And I will be specific rather than general.

Quality of replicas is a question of MONEY how much replica can you really afford?

(Steve do not panic the replica is fine!)

Let's start with the Bill Brown car. It was constructed for Steve Pliant who was at the time serving with the US forces in Korea I think.

Steve had a budget, Grant took on the project and the budget was around $30,000 AUD from memory. Grant in the end made about $6,000 AUD from the project.

It took him 6 months or more of his non daily job time, I can't say spare time because "spare" time is an hour or so here and there, Grant was working 2-3 hours a night and weekends for months.

So now the perspective need to be applied, the replicas are 30 year old cars, in many cases everything is worn out, there is body rust, grease, dirt, rusted bolts, broken gauges, cracked weather seals, uncountable previous repairs, the variables and thus the problems are almost endless.

And you never see the worst of it till the project gets underway. ANYONE how has restored a 30 year old car or built a replica will know the issues.

The best way to build a replica is to strip it to a shell and start again, as in start everything again. we can do that. it costs about $70-75,000 AUD to build a black on black that way and about $50-60,000 minimum to do a yellow replica that way.

If you read the newspaper report Scott Smith is also quoting a similar starting point of around $70,000 AUD for a black on black and I agree with that.

Steve paid about $30,000 and because we don't paint Grant had to trust the panel beater and spray painter to do what he said he could do for the money he said he could do the job for. In the end he wanted a lot more money than he quoted because he found "this was harder and that took longer".

Out of interest we have NEVER used the same painter twice, because once we have finished with them they will NEVER work for us again and that is always mutual consent. At one point we got so desperate that we thought of flying Jim Martino from the USA to paint a replica for us!

I don't even know what the Bill Brown issues are in fact I did not know he had any but Bill is a straight up guy living in the real world and I do not think he would dream of contacting Steve and saying something like "Hey Steve why did you not spend $70,000 AUD on that car you sold me for $Whatever USD", if you had spent $70,000 the car would have been better, gee I could never have really afforded it but that would not matter because you would have sold it to me for the same $$$$ Yes?"

If Bill had had any reason to complain or express a view to us he is the sort of guy who would have come forward and contacted us directly for explanation. I therefore believe Bill to be a realist in terms of what things cost and so on.

The West Cost replica was the same kind of thing, I think about $40,000 or $45,000 AUD something in that region (might have even been less) was paid for the car because it was a "budget" build up. To everyone's horror the engine did let go, (it dropped a cylinder) and we refunded some money (about $2,000 AUD or @$1,500 USD) to assist with the repairs, Grant flew to L/A to see what he could do. As it turned out the owner had said it was all under control and he had mates who worked in the film business who were working on the car. Grant and I always wondered just why the owner did not pick up a good running 351 for about $2000 USD (and heck we had just kicked in about $1500) and slot it into the replica, it's motor was stock anyhow. Even at say $42,000 total cost the replica was still way cheaper than a $70,000 AUD top end model. In the end the real expensive part in the body and body mods were totally over looked and the car was rubbished for the sake a couple of thousand dollars and the want of a second hand clean running 351 V8.

The supplied engine should not have let go. I agree. But it did and it was a tough break ( no-one should ever loose sight of the fact that replicas are 30 year old mechanical objects after all) . yet through it all the real value of the car (in it's body shape and film correctness) was still present.

The L/A car was also a budget build up to a degree, it sold for $50,000 AUD the purchasers top budget figure. I did most of that replica it took about a year can't remember what I made out of it about $5-6,000 AUD at the most, it was not a bad car, new interior, even new side glass if memory serves. As I have said previously its black on black paint was subjected to perhaps 2 Californian summers, California has about 300 days of sunshine a year.

The replica was never garaged, never under cover so imagine the result of different expansion and contraction properties relating to fibreglass and steel and then add winter moisture into the mix. The owner knew that car was aging fast through sitting outside, but he never complained because he knew his storage conditions were poor.

And that is it for replicas, no other issues. Both Japan cars were constructed with reasonably open budgets and had no post delivery issues, even so the Road Warrior replica sprung a rear main seal leak a few weeks before shipping requiring an engine removal for correction work.

That means that it is just as well I loved the replica, because I made perhaps $1-2,000 AUD profit out of it.

The Washington replica also had a reasonable budget and has given no issues at all.

The only Australian that has an issue with us is the guy who a few years ago ripped off moulds of our 4 door spoilers.. we objected. Grant hand made the original plug for the front spoiler, took him about 6 months of messing about, I hand made the roof spoiler not as hard as the front spoiler but it took me a couple of months of messing about. And we objected! What a bunch of bastards we are eh?

Another popular misconception is that you can pick up an old GT look a like and stick on some fibreglass and there you go a MAD MAX replica !

NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

Loom at the current crop of "replicas" how many have the correct door trim, correct door handles, correct head lining, correct blower set-up, door trim running along the door tops, MPH and KPH Speedo's in fact the a full and correct XB GT dash set-up, correct seat patterns, Correct wheel offsets (requiring under guards cut), correct paintwork, correct roof spoilers, correct trunk spoilers, Correct Monza nose section, Correct drive train as in 351 V8 top loader gearbox and Ford 9 inch disk brake rear end.. How many have the GT correct factory traction bars. How many have a correct looking roof console, rear honeycomb, how many have sirens, film correct exhaust system etc etc.

IF YOU BUILD A REPLICA FOR YOURSELF IT DOES NOT MATTER JUST HOW CORRECT IT IS AS LONG AS YOU ARE HAPPY plus of course if it is your own replica you can always correct the small things later, but build it for customer and we have to have things right that sometimes even the customer does not know are right or else we are held accountable.

And it is getting harder to even find the parts. I think it must be almost impossible to convey just how hard parts can be to find when in the USA you can build an entire Mustang from a catalogue, many XB Falcon parts were discontinued 25 years ago! Just try finding good rear honeycomb, and roof rail trim to name just a couple of things! Actually a new old stock wiper switch was spotted on e-bay for $500 AUD and thats how things are now.

In fact even when you can buy stuff it is often a nightmare to get things to fit . ask anyone who has tried fitting a reproduction rubber seal kit or door felts!

Anyhow to do all that and have it as new mechanically is way tricky but then we can do that. as I said it costs about $70-75,000 AUD to build a black on black that way and about $50-60,000 minimum to do a yellow replica that way.

Currently we are finishing of a "budget" 4 door replica for Steve and that's OK, I enjoyed making it but as always lots of issues and problems the front seats right now are back for correction work and like always the build-up has taken a year, my personal profit is around $4,000 AUD as a result it will be the last such reduced price replica, we pay $6,000 a year in factory rent. Our other project that Grant is devoting himself to has actually been propping up the Budget project.

I was into Mad Max and building my replica for 13 years before madmaxmovies.com even happened and I shall always love the cars, I always have. But like in the beginning I don't actually need an audience so it is indeed goodbye to all.

As I said at the start it was actually the censorship aspect that pushed my decision to spend more time away from this message board and move onto other things.

I seemed to be accused of not following "rules" yet I never even knew there was any, and later I was accused of being stupid and still not following rules after they were clearly explained to me, no-one explained anything.. nothing of the sort happened so I just thought gee .. I am too old for this. a new group has come up behind and this new era born out of the success of the old guards founding interest is now assuming ownership, So oh hell. I am out of date!

This is a public forum so I tend to say what I need to say, rather than taking something tolink section called "Thunderdome" this concept is called "free speech".

Come to think of it when I access this site I check the "general" section and the "replica" section and that's it, that's my area of interest so with limited time I never looked at the others at all.

So here to end it all are my favourite MAD MAX moments. not in any order:

* Building, equipping and driving the Road Warrior replica. I just loved that car!

* The first time I closed the hood with the blower in place on my own replica don't remember when 1998 perhaps, it was just awesome finally seeing the Interceptor sitting in my driveway.

* 1984 and reaching the Mundi Mundi plain for the first time in my not exactly correct replica, racing the Airplane in the same and that time I average over 180 KPH from Wentworth to Broken Hill, impossible to these days I am told with wildlife now everyplace (they are not culling the Roos any more).

And these days I don't think I would run an engine that hard for that long when so far from home, (gee.that confirms it, I am older. crap).

Gosh going back to 1984 and madmaxmovies.com was still 11 years distant and everyone still thought I was stupid for "stuffing up" my XB coupe with a dumb roof spoiler and"Madmaxing" it!!

* Attending the first pre-view screening of Mad Max 2 in Melbourne (I still have the commemorative badge and T-shirt). You had to win the tickets in a radio competition.

* Finding madmaxmovies.com and Peter Barton in 1995 because with it came the realisation that after 13 years solo other people in the world actually felt like I did about the cars and the films. Hard to explain today because the Mad Max movement is so wide spread and accepted but back then in the pre-internet time well 13 years is a long time to hold a private and largely unsupported dream.

Oh and finally to the "puppet" I shall be at the Motorvation 2008 car show next year so bring your mouth and see me in person.

So now it is onto other things. please no-one ask about the picture's below. my Mad Max movies message board experience in all aspects posting and viewing is now over .

All in all you have been a great bunch to associate with, keep the dream alive guys... ciao..